by Mirian Jugheli
A Broken Bridge and Two Separate Banks
All my short life, I remember conversations and discussions about the conflict in Abkhazia. I don’t remember the war, but I do remember the endless talk about its causes and consequences. I also remember the pain in the eyes of the thousands who had to leave their land. Some were happy just to have survived, but others left behind the remains of their beloved, never knowing if they would be able to go back and bury them.
My memory of the war goes back to my grandmother who lived in Gagra all her life. She loved playing the piano and singing a song in a Tango rhythm, (we called it her Gagra hymn) of "Oh, sea in Gagra, Oh, palms in Gagra, who sees this once will never forget.’’
She never blamed Abkhazians for the war: many of them were her friends and neighbors. She just could not understand why Georgians, whose roots had been in Abkhazia for so many years, had to leave.
In early 1992, the president of Georgia was thrown out of office and the Abkhazian Supreme Soviet Chairman took advantage of the chaos in Tbilisi to support the republic’s de facto independence. By July the constitution was replaced with one from 1925 which declared Abkhazia a sovereign republic. My father insisted we move out as quickly as possible because Gagra was no longer safe. But Grandma refused to leave with us, believing the war was just some kind of misunderstanding, and that she would be waiting at home until we came back. Finally, we ended up back in Tbilisi.
The war began on August 27, 1992. Georgian laws were nullified, and Abkhazians began taking official posts in the capital Sukhumi.
By October the streets of Gagra were full of Soviet tanks, and the town on fire. Georgian military forces entered but gave up within a year, since Abkhazian separatists were supported by the pro-Russian Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus (CMPC) and Russian military units.
Meanwhile, my grandma’s neighbors, ethnic Abkhazians, kept her safe for four years and in 1996 helped her escape to join us.
Ghost Country
Before the war, Georgians made up at least a half of Abkhazia’s population. Statistics aren’t clear, but between 10,000 and 30,000 ethnic Georgians died during the war, as opposed to 3,000 ethnic Abkhaz. Both sides were accused of human rights violations and some human rights groups support the claim that there was an ‘"ethnic cleansing" of Georgians. Today, the result for me is being among 250,000 Georgians forced into exile, an International Displaced Person. Will I ever see my home again?
Abkhazia remains a self-proclaimed autonomous republic recognized by no country or international organization. The part of the ancient kingdom of Kolchis, that of Jason’s Golden Fleece, is currently a no-man’s land and is frequently referred to as a ‘Ghost Country’.
However, a great number of Abkhazians already carry Russian passports, and therefore, if Georgia makes any aggressive moves, Russia will defend its citizens. For now Russia keeps quiet, not recognizing Abkhazia’s independence openly due to post-Kosovo tension in Chechnya and other regions within the Russian Federation.
For ordinary people, the best solution can only be a restoration of trust. One side wants official status, another to gain back its territory, but already 15 years have passed and there is no movement – the conflict is frozen.
I would love to stand on the balcony of my house again and sing: "Oh sea in Gagra, oh palms in Gagra, who saw that once will never forget..."
Saturday, May 3, 2008
Abkhazia: Frozen Conflict?
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This was amazing, have to give credit to the author absolutely stunning, full with emotions and interesting information. This should be published in the NY Times so that whole world will see how ingenious the author is. Kai ra gagixarda shechema inoza var.
Dear Mirian,
I’m Thomas E. Ricks senior military editor for Washington Post. Currently I’m researching Georgia-Russian and Georgia-Abkhaz conflicts in 1991-1993. After reading your wonderful blog post I would like to hear more about your story, as well as stories of others in similar situation.
Please email me if you would like to share some information with me.
Please go to this link http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/thomas+e.+ricks/ and feel free to email me your answer.
Thank you and great job,
Best regards,
Thomas Ricks
Mirian,
While I understand your angst, there are so many people like you on the other side of the border who want the same thing as you: to live in peace in their homeland without any quarrels with their neighbors or potential fears of being attacked by then.
No offense, but Georgia has not been very kind of us Abkhazians throughout history. This desperate break for freedom that we have attempted in the 1990s is just a way for us to finally taste that same freedom that your country and others achieved during the fall of Communism. It's rather ironic and saddening to me to see Georgians forgetting they were once in the same situation as ours not too long ago. I wish for Russia and Georgia and the world to recognize our independence and let us live as you all live. That is all we ask. We seek a new beginning in which we can bring our exiled brothers and sisters back from foreign lands to our rightful birthplace. I hope you can understand this as a Caucasian. We have been denied too long of these simple things. Perhaps one day we can work in unison in similar projects, but as long as Georgia will continue its aggressive threats and actions in the international arena, it seems that this concept of mutual cooperation and peace in the Caucasus is not something that can be achieved with Tblisi. I hope and pray that your people will give up their incessent claims against us and let us live in peace. Thank you.
Diana,
U seem to be sure that Georgia is going to attack Abkhazia, the last thing Georgian people want at the moment is war, we do not hate Abkhazians, these 16 years can not replace the centuries of brotherhood. The whole world knows that Abkhazia will never be free, because if Georgia ever recognizes your independence then your government will make Abkhazia part of "Great Russia". I also hope that people living in Abkhazia understand that Russia does not care about them, they want your territory.
I read several reviews of History books that are popular in Abkhazia, in these books there are many lies and mistakes,
I am happy that people like u exist in Abkhazia, people who are educated and want to talk about the problem, it is not time for guns and bands anymore. If there is a war Russia will be the only winner.
I hope that God will help us to take wise decisions and solve this frozen problem without blood.
Diana Kishba
"just a way for us to finally taste that same freedom that your country and others achieved during the fall of Communism. It's rather ironic and saddening to me to see Georgians forgetting they were once in the same situation as ours not too long ago."
First of all Georgia did not achieve freedom after the fall of Soviet Union, Georgia REGAINED freedom. IF you don't know, let me inform you that first FREE Georgian Kingdoms were created in 2000BC and Abkhazia was one of the key parts of the kingdom of Colchis. later in 10 century AD When First unified Georgian kingdom was formed Abkhazia was called the whole western Georgia. And the region of Abkhazia represented one of the most important parts of strong Georgian kingdom. Ruling noble families in Abkhazia included Anchabadze and later Shervashidze families. So it is proved by the history that during MANY MANY centuries Abkhazia was one of the most important regions of Georgia like Kartli Kakheti and etc. after 17th centuries Russian Empire decided to annex this important part of Georgia by bringing there the north Caucasian tribe Apsua. After this "smart move" of Russian Empire ethnic conflicts between Apsua and Ethnic Georgians (Abkhazian) began to occur. Now we have to hear your very confident words about independence of our historic land. 350, 000 Georgians where forced to leave their historic home, which they inhabited since the ancient times. Your nation did not exist on the earth when Georgians where living there and NOW you want to live on this land and what is the most important CLAIM IT AS YOURS. YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE THIS. You can beg Russia, get their passports (it is interesting if you are so nationalistic why do you have RUSSIAN passports?) but you will never succeed in taking Georgian land from us. You can return to your native north Caucasian tribes, which are now invaded by Russia and fight for your independence there, but not on the Georgian land. And Georgian people will never never never give their land to YOU APSUAS.
i am glad this blog opened now, when there is the danger of war in the region. as a person very scared of any military actions from or against my country, i think that this kind of dialogue is the best way to moving forward in the frozen conflict. i know both sides feel very sensitive about the topic, but if we try to overcome our emotions and speak rationally, we'll come to a better result than tanks and missles.
p.s. mika zaan magari xar
kancha
To Anonymous: I'm sorry you could not leave your real name for us to comment. I am very sad that you really believe Russia brought my people to the region so late in history! I must really take a look at the history books being read in your country!
Also, to anyone who is not aware: this is a bold faced lie. Apsuas have been in Abkhazia for centuries and more, and we had connections to Georgians, but does not make us part of them. Political alliances are and still are normal in the Caucasus. Do not forget this very important fact. I prefer to live in peace with your people and all of Caucasian peoples, but you are not allowing this to happen. We have seen what Georgia has done in recent times with illegally invading our airspace and threatening action against us in international circles. If you do not want war, why are you sending troops to our borders?
I urge people to seek the true history of this region and decide for yourselves what is true and what is not. But what I know is that we are not what Mr. Anonymous says we are. We have an ancient history like yours and we were not your slaves. We are trying to be free. Please let us be and let us resolve this: we do not wish to be a part of a country that did not give us rights and mocked us for so long. FREE ABKHAZIA
kishba,
My real name is Lasha Shervashidze, have you heart that surname? or Russians wrote another history for you Apsua’s? What you call "bold faced lie" is documented historic fact which is not written in only Georgian sources BUT ALSO RUSSIAN and WESTERN EUROPIAN.
Abkhazia is an ordinary Georgian region and not Apsny—not the fatherland of the nongeorgian Apsua ethnos that in fact lived elsewhere—to the north of the northern Caucasus in former centuries and in the 19-20th centuries. After the collapse of the USSR the truth that the Abkhazians are the Georgians but not the Apsua’s was revealed once more and many Georgian and western European documents—maps and texts were published in Georgia that were unfamiliar to the Georgians before. It is absolutely necessary to propagate the truth : Abkhazia is a regional name of the Georgians . The mother tongue of the Abkhazians i .e . of the Georgian population of Abkhazia district of Georgia is and has always been only the Georgian. The Apsua’s are not Abkhazian . The Apsuas should be called their name “Apsua” in every language : in the Georgian , Russian , French . German , Japanese , Turkish , Adige etc. This northern Caucasian tribe were the part of Russian empire plan of dividing Georgia in order to conquer it in 18-19th centuries and later this plan was adobted by Soviet government. Kishba return to your tribe with your RUSSIAN passport. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLOG WHO IS CALLING APSUAS ABKHAZ PEOPLE, IT IS ULTIMATE HUMILIATION OF MY ANCESTORS AND MYSELF. I also don't agree with Mirian about his relationship with Apsua’s. Mirian It is clear that you don't know many important parts of your history, but it is not your foult, Soviet government has taken the information from all of the history books in order to hide the truth. But ancient maps and sources prove it.
Alas, your history books say one thing. Ours and other ancient and modern documents say another. I find it odd that these two sides are at odds with one another. Why is this?
Are you aware that Georgia has commissioned writers in the past to write a Georgian-friendly view of your own history? I would double check your sources if I were you. Surely hundreds of thousands of people cannot be wrong about their own past.
But this is not surprising. Georgia has proven itself unreliable for Caucasians and their causes in the past. In that same time frame (18th-19th centuries), your people helped murder and exile hundreds of thousands of fellow Caucasians. This is also documented. If you want to argue against this, go ahead.
Bottom line is that I don't understand why Georgia cannot be content with what it has already. But we both know the answer to this: neither you or I as an Abkhazian and as a Georgian have any say in our country's destinies. The real puppeteers are the US (pulling Georgia's strings), Russia (trying to pull Abkhazian strings), and the multinational corporations that will only benefit from the natural resources in our area. They will not stop till our beautiful Caucasus has been stripped of everything that makes it great.
As sure as you are about your position, so am I. Abkhazia will fight for its independence as any freedom seeking people have.
We no longer wish to undergo Georginization by your people. We wish to speak our language freely, to learn it in schools, and not be discriminated against and oppressed by your people.
I wish the world could know these facts.
You have all of those rights that you listed but not on the Georgian territory, on my ANCESTORS AND MY LAND. In 18-19th centuries Georgians did not destroy Caucasians, maybe you are talking about Stalin who destroyed more Georgians than Caucasians taken together. But that is not the case. My point is that Apsua's and other northern Caucasian tribal people are our enemies and Russia has planned the annexation of Georgian ancient territory Abkhazia long ago in 18-19th centuries. My point is that Georgians including Mirian should not ask "permission" to live on THEIR LAND, taken at this moment by different people from northern Caucasus with different language and MORAL. When we will return to Abkhazia (and if not by peace than by war, even though I support peace) Apsua’s with their RUSSIAN passports should be required to return to their native lands in RUSSIA. We should not apologize to the tribal people who killed thousands of innocent Georgians, including children and women. Your talks about independence are very similar to your knowledge of history. Currently you are Russian slaves. Your so called president is traveling to Russia every morning, like it is his workplace; he is talking Russian and begging Russians. Disgrace to Caucasian people. O and talking about history if the facts that I stated are not true and Apsua’s did not come to our land in 18-19th centuries. How come there are Georgian churches including Pitsunda cathedral of 10th century in Abkhazia. What Apsua’s built it? Did Apsua’s write on the walls of this cathedral GEORGIAN WORDS built by King Bagrat III of Georgia. Your arguments are funny, written by Soviet Russians. For the beginning I recommend you to read the words of Nicholas II of Russia, how he refers to your tribe when he decided to bring them to Georgian land.
To Lasha Shervashidze,
Your argument "The Apsua’s are not Abkhazian" is very pathetic.According to you then you should be called Kartveli and not Georgian in English and since you are called Georgian then you are not really a Kartveli. If you knew your roots and your for fathers language and had a respect for us as a nation you would know that Apsua stands for being an Abkhazian in abkhazian language. Hence you can't say that Apsuas are not Abkhazians, so don't be embarrassing yourself. Moreover, with this kind of attitude how can you expect us to sit at negotiating table with you as a nation. While few Georgians, are trying to respect our national rights majority of Georgians are fueled with fascistic nationalism. You accuse us for seeking alliance with Russia in mean while you are doing the same thing with America and without America backing you up, you really have nothing.
Madina Khagba
Abkhazians have been living in ABKHAZIA for centuries, as long as Georgians were on their territory, whatever that is now, since the borders are obviously different. So, no, it's not your land. And no, I was talking about Georgians who after the end of the Caucasian Wars assisted Russians in their foul measures against your neighbors and mine. Your people, as well as mine were uprooted from their homes and taken to foreign lands. That is why our population is so low while yours was high. Also, Stalin resettled Georgians in ABKHAZIA in the 1920s and up because they want to populate ABKHAZIA with Georgians, so that what's going on today will happen.
So, we are your enemies now? What happened to sentiment like this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UZeKBlDaD0g
Or this one, which is a bit more embarrassing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QOB95q3ZFYc
With that one sentence, you proved you are a hostile nation bent on taking over an oppressed people whose only wish is to get away from you! You advocate war, death, and destruction upon us yet at the same time wish to be friendly with us? Where's the logic?
And what about the Georgians who killed innocent Apsuas? Wounded, children, older people, women?! Shame on you for disregarding them!
Like your fake genocide, I hope that the world will learn the truth about people like you who only seek to cause harm upon a nation whose only crime was to be from a land that borders yours.
My simple, ignorant neighbor: evidentially you do not know the history of your own region. Tell me of a nation in the Caucasus that did not have contact with, took customs from, or intermingled/intermarried with another. Please, just one. Of course there will be Georgians in our land from days past because this is one of several times your nation has tried to take us over. We conducted services in Georgian because for us it was our Latin: your people surpressed us and like the Romans did with their conquered lands, tried to assimilate them into their culture. Do you think it's so complex? Of course it is not. Circassian clothing was taken by all Caucasian peoples and adopted as their own. The food has travelled from the south to the north and vice versa. This is the saddest and weakest argument I have ever heard.
http://www.euratlas.com/travel_time/europe_south_east_1000.html
Keep looking at this map, and also check other dates.
I truly truly feel sorry for the way you and your people are being misled by your own people. But this is hardly surprising. You have shown your true colors with your words.
I suppose now my family and I can expect to be forced at gunpoint to leave our home and country, or raped and sodomized, or murdered, or tortured beyond belief because we are not Georgians.
I hope the world sees what is truly going on and helps us.
God bless free Abkhazia!
First, We don't have American passports, our president doesn't live in America, American army is not standing on Georgian territory and we don 't beg America for approval and defense.
Your first argument is absolutely funny. Apsua are called Abkhazians by Russians since Russian brought them on that land. The reason for this is LOGICAL ,Russians wanted local Georgians who were called Abkhazians and tribal people Apsua’s to be called the same name, in order to assimilate Apsua’s on Georgian land and then claim it, which eventually happened, very LOGICAL. While in reality Abkhazian is the name of ethnic Georgian from Abkhazian region like other Georgians like Kakhetians, Khevsurs and etc. In fact I’m Abkhazian, Shervashidze family was ruling Abkhazia after Anchabadze family and your funny Russian tales about you being Abkhazians are disgusting especially to me. While Georgian and Kartveli are English and Georgian words and both mean one and the same thing.
O and I don't expect you to seat for a negotiation there is nothing to negotiate. Tribal people Apsua’s brought to Georgian land by Russians are claiming our land, what should we negotiate about with you?
Lasha,
rogor sheidzleba dagekontaqto? shentan gasaubreba minda.
M.
Anonymous, or Lash: What a great fairy tale you have told me :)) We were called Abkhazians by Russians :))))
Now I truly know that Georgians are being fed substandard propoganda to ilicit violence and hatred against us.
I hope and pray the world will see the situation for what it really is, and that your people will halt their violent designs on our people.
God bless.
I also find it typical that you would ignore everything else I've addressed and leap to one point alone. Learn how to debate if you're going to write a post. Thank you.
Lash, please comment on the following:
http://cdi.org/russia/johnson/2007-144.cfm#12
A segment from an UN report:
The invasion by Georgian forces of Abkhazia in August 1991...
They fully identified with the separatist side. Reports about deliberate destruction by Georgian forces of all major archives, scientific institutes, libraries, museums and theatres in Abkhazia, of ethnic cleansing, looting, rape and wanton destruction caused acute fear of another genocide.
Source: The North Caucasian Diaspora In Turkey, UNHRC The UN Refugee Agency, 1996
And finally:
http://www.unpo.org/content/view/7854/76/
READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY.This is why I do not take people like you seriously. If any non-Georgian or non-Caucasian in general sees this, I hope they learn the truth from these venues, instead of Wikipedia and other Georgian sponsored trash on the Internet.
You will be welcome as a tourist in my country, just keep your weapons and your insults at home.
Diana,
i just want to comment about links provided by you.
link NO.1 : the video says that the people that did that video are representatives of Georgian Society, and i bet 99% of Georgians haven't even heard about something like this ('appeal'), what bunch of Georgians did doesn't mean that all Georgia thinks this way. if you are interested in this appeal i recommend you to read this discussion (if you understand Russian of course).
http://georgien.boell-net.de/download_ru/5_RU_Abchazia_2.05.pdf
now about your link NO. 2 song - Hello Abkhazia. the lyrics are taken from the peom by Georgian writer Galaktion Tabidze (1891-1959) so it doesnt have anything with 'appeal' and about the video: it was made to show that Georgian people want to come back peacefuly, and everything that Russia says is a lie. you may read Ships's name 'Unity' which means that nobody is trying to kick you from the land of Abkhazia, but Georgians want to live with current population of Abkhazia (without Russian interference of course).
George from Georgia.
I know Russian, German, English, Abkhazian, and Georgian. I will read your article, but I want to note that I did not post those links to connect them to that appeal. I posted them to show you what else is out there besides your narrow minded bigotry.
As I said, I will pray for you and your people to cease their violent mannerisms and leave us be.
You can live with us in our country, there is no problem with this. I never said I didn't want to deal with Georgians. But be sure that we will not cease our appeals for freedom from you. You have done nothing good for us, why should we accept you? You made no comment about anything I said before about forced Georginization of our children and peoples, and other topics. Why?
Because you choose to see only what you like?
God help you!
I want to tell all Abkhazians who support Abkhazia;s independence, Russia is the greatest danger for you! It is childish to think that Russian Government really cares about your independence, it is so obvious that russians want to enlarge there borders, they want the beautiful lands of Abkhazia, they want your resorts and mountains, do u really beleive that u will evet be independent country? and are you ready for it?
Lets say, that u become a republic after one month, what are you going to do with 250 000 refuges? they want to go home, they want there houses ( I hope none of u will dare to say that these people do not deserve to live at home) what are you going to do with thousands of russian soldiers in Abkhazia? How are u going to have an economy when Russians own everything there? how are you going to be independent when your "president" ( who is a citizen of other country (Russia)) is just doing what russians order him to do? wait, do u have an government? yes, u do , i even have watched a video where Ashba ( the guy whom abkhazians call president) is asking the ministers to stop having parties in the offices,and to make there emploees delete games from office computers, and this government is going to lead a country?
Well there is a decision for u, lets join "Great Russia", u r anyway Russian citizens already!!!
One more thing about history, i do not want to start u proofing anuthing, just think about it yourself, what books are worth to beleive, the ones that were written during last centuries or ones that were written during last years ?
The most painful is one thing, we Georgians got fooled by Russians! By Gergians i mean all the people living on the territory that is marked as Georgia on the map in the years of Civil war. There is no family in Georgia that has not had an Apsua friend, and they did not call him Apsua, they called him Abkhazian, Georgian, we were not enemies, Apsuas and georgians have been living in Abkhazia peacefully and never ever had problems in living togehter. Who the needed war then? Georgian government? or simple abkhazian people? no, Russia. They rebelled you, and our Government did not act properly either, so the war began...
and u won it? did u ? no Russians did, along with Chechens, Cossacs and some armenias and u, and without Russia u had no chance to win, but without Russia there would have been no war! BUT, i do agree that out Government made mistakes, and made mistakes and Russia won...
ENOUGH! why do u give yourself to be fooled by Russia? Do u think your "president" is someone who cares about?
I do beleive on thing, if Russian Fighers ( and not peacekeepers, and whole wworld knows that russian soldiers there are for fighting with us not for keeping peace) leave the territory and Europian peacekeepers replace them, then our people will manage to forgive and unite!
I hope for better future!!!! Thanks Mirian for hie affort and ard work!
Diana Kishba,
i want to comment about your second part of the links.
Link #1. the source is about Russia as i guess and not about Abkhazia, there is even more written about "Russia and Global Warming" than about Abkhazia, what makes it funny, i really can not understand why you provided this link? i anwered you about appeal, but as i guess you did not pay attention. when tell Georgians here that they dont read your comments, ask yourself if you do?
Link #2 provides history of Abkhazia from VIIth century. to my mind come 2 ideas and questions: 1) what do you try by this? to hide history of Abkhazia before VII century (first historical fact written about Abkhazia goes back to 6 BC, when Greeks open a port in Sokhumi which is part of Colchis.) or you you even dont have an idea about Abkhazia before VIIth century? 2) i think by this link you provided very good support to Lasha Shervashidze's argument, that Apsuas were settled on the land much more after Georgians.
Thanks for your attention and feel free to comment me.
Ultimately, I have found out that no matter how much truth you show, how many authentic documents you bring, and how many eyewitness reports you quote...you can never change their opinion, Diana. Just let it go. These people believe in many things. We all know Georgians have been misled for many many things. They even believe a genocide happened in Abkhazia. I was in Abkhazia and never heard of a genocide. I saw Georgians fighting against Georgians. Their spin is unbelievable. I don't hate you all, but I do not respect you for taking the truth of this conflict out of context. And the funny thing about this is that the USA is courting you just to take advantage of your geopolitical location, your access to the Black Sea, natural resources (aka lots of money for ExxonMobile, Shell, Texaco, etc), and to be a thorn in Russia's side, an old enemy. You both (Abkhazia and Georgia) are being screwed and you don't know it. Powerful states never do anything for smaller ones unless they want something back. Shame on you all. And especially shame on Georgia for being so hypocritical. They themselves were under Russian rule not too long ago and that kills me, but they seem to have adopted this brutal oppressor attitude quite well. Must come from having had close ties with Russians in the past. I heard your people helped them when they killed your neighbors. Is this true? It seems to be.
You guys are really confused and sad...I hope you get your shit together. No one wants you there, why do you think forcing yourself onto a country that doesn't want ANYTHING to do with you is going to help? Just who the hell do you think you are? You're an embarrassment to Caucasians everywhere. No wonder no one likes Georgia. You're the US's bitch now...hope you enjoy being whipped.
Alpay Orcan
"She just could not understand why Georgians, whose roots had been in Abkhazia for so many years, had to leave."
It is so ironic to recognise that Abkhazian diaspora in Turkey is six times higher than Abkhazians who live in Abkhazia. Did my great grandfather Gog Ejbek chose to leave Abkhazia or there was an ethnic cleansing of Abkhazians by force?
And for the world who keeps listening Georgian stories of war;
General Tengiz Kitovani entered Sukhumi on August 14,and Georgian soldiers commit countless atrocities against Abkhazians and members of other non-Georgian ethnic groups.Mr. Eduard Shevardnadze himself agreed that there is no regular army in Georgia, and Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Kavsadze, Chairman of the Georgian State Committee for Human Rights and Nationality Relations, admitted that soldiers had vandalized, looted and said they were "out of control." What is out of control? Destruction of Abkhazian University, the offices of several Abkhazian cultural journals, an Abkhazian language publishing and printing house, an Abkhazian secondary school, the Abkhazian Institute of Language, Literature, and History, the Abkhazian National Museum, and the Abkhazian National Archives. General Georgiy Karkarashvili's televised speech to the Abkhaz and Georgian people in Sukhumi on August 24, that "no prisoners of war will be taken" by the Georgian troops, that "if 100,000 Georgian lose their lives, then [on the Abkhazian side] all 97,000 will be killed"; and that "the Abkhaz Nation will be left without descendants, " This is out of control.
How dare any one can say that Abkhazians are the aggressors when all we do is protect what is rightfully ours, my country is not called Georgia it is Abkhazia and we talk Abkhazian, we are Abkhazians. There is truth in Karkarashvili's speech you will have to fight the entire Abkhazian nation and I dare you.
Georgians who claim that Abkhazians are Georgian can any one of you understand a word of Abkhazian?
Dear Anonymous,
I myself dont understand Abkhazian but i have Abkhazian-Georgian dictionary at home. I also dont understand Megrelian and Svan, what does that mean? that if i dont understand that languages, that parts of Georgia should be separated?
when you start talking about language, better find out, when christianity was spread in Georgia, on which language church wrote and prayed in ABKHAZIA!! if you dont want to find out, i will tell you: YES, it was GEORGIAN! why? because Abkhazia was territory of Georgia for a centuries, and you guys believe in a history of Abkhazia after VII century or even more. understand one thing, i know you dont want to but you have to, understand that Abkhazia always was territory of Georgia, i can show you the maps of Georgia starting from 3 BC till today where Abkhazia always is included in Georgia.
Thanks.
Dear George from Georgia,
The question in here should be, "9700 Abkhazians who dont want to live under Georgian occupation, have a right to do that or not?" Most Georgians will say " NO! " and will insist in their shovenist ideology that Abkhazia was a part of Georgia for centuries and we were mixed... Than how did Abkhazians managed to create a language which is unique, did they have dictionaries to communicate with their Georgian next door neigbours? And yes I belive Svans have a right for an independent state if they want to, Megrelians are as well. Georgians are not any more or less human than us and we are only asking for which is a god given right for all humans and it is FREEDOM.
Dear Anonymous, Abkhazia's current population is 9700? if you want to have an independence and while your president Sergei Bagapsh claims that Abkhazia has potental to be Democratic state, than Abkhazian government should hold a referendum were MUST, pay attention to word MUST, participate both 9700 current population of Abkhazia and all Georgian refugees.
I cant understand how conscienceness lets you ask for independence when you are citizens of Russian Federation (a.k.a Russian Kingdom, we just saw an example of Monarchy in Russia when Medvedev became a president and Putin - Prime-Minister.)
guys I really tell you this friendly: you cant understand that you've sold your soul to devil, you exchanged your nationality on Russian passport. just check what's going on in other Russia's small states (Dagestan, Chechnya and etc.)
Take Care,
George From Georgia
GEORIANS WHY DO YOU CALL APSUAS ABKHAZIANS? THIS TERM WAS FIRST INTORDUCED BY THE RUSSIAN EMPIIRE IN 18th CENTURIE. ABKHAZIAN IS THE NAME OF GEORGIAN PEOPLE LIVING IN CERTAIN REGION, LIKE ACHARIANS, MENGRELIANS, SVANS, KAKHETIANS, IMERETIANS, GURIANS AND ETC. PLEASE RESPECT YOUR HISTORY AND DON'T CALL THIS RUSSIAN COCK SUCKERS ABKHAZIANS. APSUAS, RUSSIAN SLAVES, YOU HAVE THE TOTAL RIGHT OF FREEDOM (BUT YOU DON'T WANT IT U SUCK RUSSIAN COCKS), BUT NOT ON THE GEORGIAN LAND. GO TO YOUR UGLY NORTH CUACUASIAN MOUNTAINS AND BE FREE THERE, WITH YOUR LENGUAGE AND CULTURE. ABKHAZIA IS HISTORICALY GEORGIAN TERRIOTRY WITH MAJORITY OG GEORGIAN ETHNIC GROUP (UNTIL GENOCIDE IN 1992-93). IT IS PROVED BY ANCIENT MAPS, HISOTIC FACTS IN THE WORLDS FAMOUS BOOK AND CHURCHES ON ABKHAZIAN TERRITORY, IF THIS WAS YOU LAND HOW COME THERE ARE GEORGIAN CHURCHES, FOR EXAMPLE PITSUNDA BUILT IN 10 CENTURIES WHERE YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE GEORGIAN WRITING ON THE WALL????????
RUSSIAN SLAVE APSUAS SHOULD LEAVE GEORGIAN TERRITORY AND NEVER COME BACK. RUSSIAN ARMENIAN AND FUCKING CAUCASIAN ARMIES DREW 350 GEORGIANS FROM THEIR LAND, AFTER THIS THERE IS NO CHANCE WE WILL LIVE IN PEACE, I SEE FUTURE VERY BRIGHT. GEORGIANS WILL RETURN TO RHEIR LAND AND APSUAS WILL GO BACK TO THEIR NATIVE AND BELOVED RUSSIA. AND IF WE CONSIDER HOW "BRAVE" APSUANS ARE I THINK IT WILL HAPPEN SECONDS.
APSUAN COCKSUCKERS CONTINIUE TO LICK RUSSIAS DICK, KEEP YOUR RUSSIAN PASSPORTS NEAR YOU YOU WILL NEED IT VERY SOON
You must be a Georgian to leave a comment like this; I am the great grandson of an Apsua who was forced to leave by Russians at 1800
and I dont like Russians any more than Georgians, it is Georgian policy that forced Abkhazians to accept the Russian passports, what would you expect after 15 years of blocade. And when it comes to licking you Georgians are experts in it trained by Americans, Turkish and many other European country; I believe you even have an America University; but be careful and read history, you dont even need to go too far back just look at the first Gulf war and what happened to Kurds and Shiiates who listened to father Bush; same is coming for you dont think that west will be BACKing you for ever and even if Georgia does not want this war Russia does and be prepared neighbour I only want to see how many of you are going to run this time probably to your other BACKer Ukrain and I am positive it is going to be alot more than 350 thousand. Oh you can also try to swim to Turkey you might find some relatives there. Also Turkish man love Georgian woman I actually have met quite few in Istanbul who were getting educated....
1) when you write, do not hide your name!
2) when you write watch your language, i think we all are raised in families, if you cant hide your emotions, dont write!
3) Abkhazian Anonymous, when you talk about Georgia "licking somebody's *ss, think what Abkhazia does, Georgia doesnt have American as a official language, Abkhazian government talks on Russian. American havent distributed US passports, and Georgians havent taken them respectively. Russia distributed Russian passports and i dont know voluntarily or by forcing Abkhazians took Russian passports.
4) just a days ago Abkhazian government made people come out and "support" Putin. but its very very funny in what they support Putin? is he participating in some song contest or what?
5) im really sorry that you dont understand what you are doing while aliancing with Russia.
6) please, lets discuss here current issues or something logical and argumentative, because swearing and blaming on each other is already old trick and it will not lead to something better for the region.
thanks,
George from Georgia
I completely agree with the “anonymous” person from Georgia. Georgians should NOT call Apsua’s Abkhazians. And George from Georgia, “when you write, do not hide your name!” you told these words as though this person is a coward. This is a blog not the battlefield. And plus I think you can make this remark only if you don’t “hide” yourself, I mean there are at least 500,000 thousand George’s from Georgia, which doesn’t say anything to me.
On the other hand I agree with George about expressing ideas. Even though it is really hard for me to look at the Apsua lies, this is internet and getting angry and talking trash here is somewhat funny.
Now let’s touch the most important issue.” I am the great grandson of an Apsua who was forced to leave by Russians at 1800” Dear Apsua that is exactly what I was talking about. YOU ARE THE GUESTS ON THIS LAND. Even though you have leaved on Georgian land for 3-4 centuries it doesn’t give you the right to take historic Georgian lands from Georgians who lived there from 2000BC. I don’t care if you were forced to leave your native land, it is your problem and 17 years ago I would have supported your people for the fight for freedom, BUT on YOUR LAND in North Caucasus not on OURS. The only thing I care is the fate of 350,000 Georgians whose ancestors lived Abkhazians region for many many centuries, like the rest of Georgians have lived in other regions, and now can’t even return to their homes.
You also talk about Georgian –American relationship and compare it to Russian-Apsua. I think if you are a reasonable person you should realize that it is not the same. You have Russian passport, you president goes to Russia for receiving orders, you are another region of Russian federation, you can’t do anything without them. While Georgia and USA exchange several thing. You told that USA is using Georgia, first of all you should state in what way? The only argument you can state is oil pipeline, but then again it has positive effect on Georgia’s economy and people never complained about it. You might say that USA wants to use Georgia as a base for war in Iran. But that is also unrealistic, First USA won’t dare to begin war in Iran, and second Georgia doesn’t have high tech military facilities which are needed for huge US army, so that version is also a lie. Oil pipeline, gas pipeline, cargo transportation all of these are benefiting Georgia and USA together. On the other hand being the member of NATO gives Georgia the chance to be completely safe and independent from EVERYONE in the world. It seems that Georgia is “taking more” from USA than USA from Georgia. The fact that our Ukrainian brothers are supporting us is logical, because they also realize that it is unfair when Georgians are not living on their historic land. Most of the world thinks this way too.
Nowadays I think situation is going to the positive solution. If Georgia manages to join NATO than our chances of returning in Abkhazia increase. I will see than Apsuan talks, I’m sure they will change radically, I know your character really well. You are not a brave people, very similar to Armenians. When Georgia will return Abkhazian region, I think that most of the Apsua’s will return to their homeland or stay in their almost native Turkey (which is another country you are really close to in terms of character and morale) This will result in final extinction on Apsua people, with your language without vowels and etc. Georgians received you on their land like brothers, when you started to show the elements of separatism, of course Georgians became aggressive towards you, because you were just taking away their historic land. But you will never succeed in this, Russia destroyed your people and you didn’t even realize it.
Folks.why don't you be more friendly???what is up? you Georgians tend to think you are so intelligent and well-bred, now after reading all that stuff I came up with the idea that you are not so intelligent and friendly at all. You are forgetting some main historical moments in terms of Abkhazia. Please be sure to keep in mind ABKHAZIA had belonged, has always belonged ans will always belong to APSUA people. It is the land of Abkhazians. And you do have problems with reading historical books, do go and take books to find proper info...you are talking crap. It is nonsense what you are saying about who are apsua (people from russia)oo God...I do believe God put a very eccentric sense of humor into your minds.
And please keep in mind forever you Georgians started the war..your officer and chief of army declared he will spare many georgians in oreder to kill and destroy all Apsua (remember that??? Karkarashvili)..we don't forget about that and never will. And now you imply that we started all that. I am more likely to think of you as people who do lack a sense of reality you know. It were gerogians who welcomed the army in 1992..adn now some of these georgians think they have a right to come back to Apsny...NEVER NEVER..there is no trust for people who once betrayed and killed their neighbours -abkhazians. And don't think that USA is gonna help you a lot to put things right..no.. this situation is fine with USA and Russia as well keepin you close and playing with you. So I think it is better to take much more frinedly position and be positive towards Apsua people and don't trigger the situation.
And whatever PLEASE LEAVE US IN PEACE cause we are not gonna fight with you. Just let us live...and that is it. WE are tired if your foolish ambitions regarding out Motherland.
This was a young lady from Abkhazia, A land of soul.
Anyone who was in the Caucasus during the 1990s knows your Georgian genocide is nothing but a propoganda stunt. We all know you're lying. Stop telling the world this. Please tell me how a group of people who were even unprepared for your invasion of our country could have come up with a plan to exterminate the Georgian nation just like that...it's not logical and don't insult our intelligence. Your choice of words like cocksucker says a lot about you and your culture overall. There's a strong reason or many why your people are so disliked throughout the region. You prove it with your actions and words. You should consider redeeming yourselves. Shame on you, little kid.
Why do Georgians always bring to the table the sad old tired arguments from years past?
1) Abkhazians obviously have to travel. What do you expect? Having a passport, any passport, is a necessity. Freaking DOH! So stop bringing up this point because you all know this very well but since your argument is so weak and you have nothing to bring up, you choose to bring this recycled point up again and again and AGAIN. I am not kidding, I've heard this stupid point maybe 5676 times so far.
2) Georgian writing on old churches? As someone else said earlier, Georgian was the language of the church. Just like Latin is the chosen language for the Roman Catholic Church. Moot point. This is so bloody obvious it's a joke you're even bringing up this up to make a point. ALSO, yes, there has been extensive intermingling with Caucasian groups for a very very long time.Do you think your people were so isolated from the rest of the region that this lame comment proves Abkhazia is your land? AHAAHAHAHAHA get a grip child. Another stupid point bites the dust...NEXT:
3) Russia is Russia, and you know this just as well as anyone else. While you kiss Turkish and American ass, we are forced to kiss Russian ass.So what? We are small nations. What do you expect, honestly? Are you an idealist or a moron? Perhaps you may need to take a political science 101 class instead?
The ultimate thing that will come out of this hopefully will be the world seeing what a bunch of liars, hypocrites, and opportunists you are. Your people, as the old man said, are incredibly disliked, and for good reason. You should be ashamed of yourselves for going to such lengths to hide and lie about OUR history and revising your own to suit your purposes. Then again, history is always written by the victor. Luckily, in this case, we have access to information that proves your version of our events is a straight up lie. Seriously, that's embarrassing...
Before you dig an even deeper hole for yourselves and make a mockery of the Caucasian region, why don't you accept the fact that after centuries of violence, oppression, and forced culturization by your dubious leadership, we have finally broke free of the chains that bound us to you and are now stepping forward to declare our freedom from a brutish culture that has stopped at nothing to swallow us whole. Enough is enough! Stop believing lies, read the truth, and stop threatening to kill innocent women and children, as you did the last time you invaded our country. Believe me, NO ONE WANTS YOU. Why do you feel you must force yourself onto us?
Get that point again. NO ONE WANTS YOU!
Why doesn't Mr. Ricks speak to Abkhazians and get their version of our history instead? You know the truth exists, and even though it is the right thing to do, you choose to go to a source that comes from a country that has shamed itself with lies and hypocracy. Why not contact someone from Sukhumi who can give you a more legitimate side of this story??
That's truly demeaning, a mockery of journalist.
Guys I am Georgian and I am Abkhazian, part of my family lives in Abkhazia other part in other pars of Georgia.I do not want Abkhazia back, I do not think that Abkhazians are inferior to Georgians I just want to live as we deserve to live, in prosperity, peace in a place where there is no fear of each other, where no one side is a guarantee of anything, where there is mutual respect.
As a historian I know that Abkhazians have lived on this lands and not only onthe lands where they live but also south from those places where they lived (in Guria e.g.). I also know that history does not give you any advantage in claiming the lands... Our lands, including Abkhazia have been part of the other Empires - e.g. Russia, Ottomans, Monghols, Arabs, Persians, Byzantians, Romans etc... in reality far longer then independent, but this does not give any other the right to claim us as part of the other country today.
We are people with one past, divided, united, often quarreling but with a destiny to live with one another, however divided with troops between or without, with our families that are sooo mixed, with our dances that are so similar, with the traditions of friendship, with love of freedom and other great traits.
Most of my relatives, young ones from Abkhazia live now in Russia. This is a sad story and I think that we both are responsible for it.
Alpay Orcan - EJBEK
I have told this to Georgians before all you had to do to keep your hard earned frreedom and us Abkhazians away dfrom Russia was to accpet our independence and we could have lived in peace but it had to come this. You had to force Abkhazians to Russians, and escelate the tensions with Russia in hope of EU and American help for you; there is oone thing you miscalculate Russia. There is only one thing left for Georgia to stop a Russian invasion of its land accept Abkhazias independence.We are seeing Russia escelating the tensions; Georgians should remember the explosions at Moscow and countless lives lost in apartment building explosions which Russia blamed on Chechens and started the second Chechen war.
I am an Abkhazian and I dont want an other war, I dont want to see Russia in Abkhazia, Chechnya, Daghestan, Karachay Cherkess or Adigey and also Georgia. My Georgian neighbours, you can not be blind to what you have caused and what is coming, do what is right accept Abkhazian Independence and we all can live in peace for the thousands of years to come.
I am sorry, but your people have continuously been caught red handed LYING about Abkhazia to foreigners and to themselves. It's actually quite shameful at this point. Please observe the following link. Whether you may throw that old, tired, Georgian accusation that the man is a linguist and not a historian (which does not even merit an answer, as evident by this article alone that ANYONE can write an article and call it truth) the fact is that at least he is using credible sources to make this point.
I believe this is what many of you pro-Abkhazians here are trying to say, and this is what Abkhazian independence supporters feel.
Please, Georgia stop digging a bigger hole than you are in already. Revised historical texts, Western buddies and financial partners, and outright ignorance, oblivious behaviors, and pure dismissal of obvious and crystal clear truths will not win you any friends, supporters, or good karma points.
Your government is poisoning your people to think that we are antagonists. We are not.We want simply what you have and what we deserve. Stop lying to the world that we are a part of you, this is not the truth and never was! I hope some of you hypocritical journalists who write for big papers and networks out there see this and start to finally post some favorable news about us and our cause. We are not terrorists, we are not "strangers in a strange land", and we are not anything. We are merely us, Abkhazians. And we deserve and need our independence. Enough already of your problems. Please settle them among yourselves, not among us.
http://www.circassianworld.com/News/Socor_Geo.html
Tell me where this man lies in this article.
hey who said that abkhazia is a georgian word???? are u really so stupid?
someone was asking
"http://www.circassianworld.com/News/Socor_Geo.html
Tell me where this man lies in this article."
here is a lie: "There were, however, verified cases of Russian assistance. Russian pilots were actually shot down by Kartvelian units, but the incidents were isolated and more likely reflected free-lancing by rogue elements of the Russian military, a fact which has precedence elsewhere in the Caucasus, including the earlier Georgian conflict in South Ossetia"
it is very interesting how a "free-lance" military planes from Russia flew over the Caucasus without knowledge of the Russian Government.
Diana Kishba wrote that to live in Abj\hazia is to live in constant " potential fears of being attacked by thenm". (frendly Georgia). I am from similar region.
Th Anonymous answered Diana supported Georgians: "Diana,
U seem to be sure that Georgia is going to attack Abkhazia, the last thing Georgian people want at the moment is war"
Both comments were left May 5, 2008. 4 months and 3 days later, Georgia attacked South Ossetia and completely destroyed the capital of South Ossetia killinmg more than 1.500 civilians.
International press, at first , tried to blame Russia as a starter. However , today, oficial report of Human rights recognized and balmed Georgia for the begining of the war.
I am so curious. Right now, Goergia is in a recessin as a whole world is, however, the wife of Saakashvilli(Georgian President) spent Christams holidays at the USA paying 17.000$ per night for the hotel.
Th
If Georgia likes US so much, then export GAS from US!
Idiots, we all depend on Russia (we=ALL CIS countries). We don't have so much of our own ressorces to function independenly. Don't piss off the former Big Brother. It can sqeeze you so hard - nothing will left.
Ukraine was buying gas from Russia for 240$ . while Russia, as a Big Brother , was helping Ukraine because Russia itself is buying gas from Turkmenistan for 350$. Now Russia is showing Ukraine its place. Ushenko will be impiched very soon.
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